Author Topic: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges  (Read 25751 times)

Hedley Lamarr

  • Territorial Marshal
  • Bama Belle says that I am "Roguishly Handsome"...
Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« on: October 18, 2005, 05:50:26 PM »
'Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges'
     44 Cal Combustible Cartridges

Compliments of Sgt John Chapman

Some of this is to your preference, so I will tell you what I did and you can take it from there.
For the 44cal cartridges I use Bugler cigarette papers they measure roughly 1 1/2\" x 2 3/4\" . A piece of a 7/16\" dowel stick long enough to handle, (at least 6\"),  Saltpetre, an Elmer\'s glue stick, and scissors. Optional things Dehydrator with sheet plastic for fruit roll-ups.
(For 36 cal. I use a 3/8\" dowel and for 31 cal. I use a 5/16 dowel)
Against the steel rule you can see the approximate length of the dowels(mine are too short) and the taper this is the part where you need to find your own preference. You want the taper to allow you a good angle to load and to create a \"paper cup\" just big enough to hold your powder charge and hold it tight, a lose powder bag will rip easier than a tight one.
Keep in mind here you may have to revamp the shape of the dowel after a few tries so it will work better......I think I went through 4 or so...........
 
Stuff Used
 
 
 
OK, her we go, break out about twelve papers, mix up a solution of Saltpetre and water, about 1 cup of water and two teaspoons of the Saltpetre, and lay the papers flat in the solution so they wont bunch up. This will be the toughest part of this whole thing. After about an hour very carefully, with a set of tweezers or something of that order, pull the papers out one at a time and place them on the Fruit Roll-up sheet in the dehydrator or on a sheet of wax paper and let them dry. Sounds simple enough but don\'t cuss me when you try it. Dry time in the Dehydrator is about 15 - 20 minutes on the wax paper I guess it depends on the day. I do a whole book of papers just to get it out of the way and put them in a Ziploc bag, you will ruin some papers but keep them you will need them later. Don\'t do any more than 12 at a time it\'s too much to handle.
 
After you get all the papers done you might need to smooth some of them out a little, I used the steel rule in the picture and drug it lightly across the top of the paper and against a hard smooth surface like the kitchen counter tops, again you will see what you can get away with, just go easy.  I then cut my papers to 1 1/2\" x a sliver over 1\", again yours may be different due to a smaller powder charge or whatever. What you want to wind up with is about 1/16th \" fold over on the base of the \"cup\" we are making. We now take the papers that were cut and carefully wrap them around the dowel and glue the seam with the glue stick, with it tapered the bottom will overlap a little extra don\'t worry that\'s fine . Once that\'s done out of the extra paper left over or out of  the ruined papers cut a 3/8 x 3/8\" square  and glue it to the bottom of the cup.   Hopefully this drawing will help a little?
                                                             
 Fold over.....
Fold Over Picture
 
Cutting the Paper.......
Cutting the Paper Picture
     
I cut a lot of these squares at one time. What this does is form a cup which will hold the powder but is thin enough to let the cap blow through this is the secret to the whole thing, most \"Paper Cartridges\" made are twisted at the end or all folded up and even if you use a pick the cap cannot flame past it all. This method cures that.
Make a handful of the cups and then move on, later when you have figured out the correct \"cup\" you can mass produce them . I have about 1000 cups extra and the slugs and periodically when I need them I powder them and put them together.
Any way, make your powder charges, I do this one at a time to prevent mishaps, and I throw 30 gn 3F Black from my flask into the cup and tap it down . I then take a slug made with Lee Precisions 200gn Conical, cap and ball mould put glue around the base and put it in the top of the cup. This sounds a little difficult but go slow the glue softens the paper a little and it usually slips right over with a slight twisting motion, at this point square the bullet out and let them dry over night. you can also substitute round balls at this point but grease over them after loading.
 
  http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/285116  
  http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item...?sku=0000690382
  This is the Bullet mould.
 
Last of all, I took the Bees Wax/Crisco mix we use with BP and wiped it into the exposed grease groove working towards the nose as not to get any on the paper.
Now your ready to shoot, it\'s my understanding that enough contact is made on the sides of this slug that you don\'t have to put lube over the top like balls.
 
 
When loading these animals will be a little snug getting them under the ram sometimes , if you push firmly, straight down they will pop down a little more and have more room  if you need it, with round balls you wont have this problem.
 
Regards,
 
 Sgt John Chapman
 
If I left anything out or seemed to have, or you have any questions,  give me a holler...............   cav_rider4570@yahoo.com
 
 
 
 
My Reproductions, Boxes and All,............
 
More Repos,...........
 
Pile of Rounds,.......
 
 
The Originals,..........;D


« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 04:02:00 PM by Hedley Lamarr »
Hedley Lamarr

"There's a special rung in hell reserved for people who waste good scotch." - Lt. Archie Hickox

Sgt John Chapman

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2005, 01:08:53 PM »
Thanks Hedley,......I'm Flattered...........
Regards,
Sgt John Chapman
___________________________________
~*EXTREME WARTHOG*~
**GAF #143**
*SCORRS*
RATS #165
GMG2 USN '89-'93
___________________________________

Courage is being scared to Death,...But saddling up Anyway." -John Wayne
"BUTT THOSE SADDLES, It's Time To Ride"

Sgt John Chapman

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2006, 07:15:22 PM »
 :gafpac:

I've been asked several times where to get Saltpetre from,...........best bet is E-Bay,.............or if you can find an understanding Pharmacist they might order it for you ,............
Regards,
Sgt John Chapman
___________________________________
~*EXTREME WARTHOG*~
**GAF #143**
*SCORRS*
RATS #165
GMG2 USN '89-'93
___________________________________

Courage is being scared to Death,...But saddling up Anyway." -John Wayne
"BUTT THOSE SADDLES, It's Time To Ride"

tarheel mac

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2006, 03:07:52 AM »
Wow...That's impressive.  You do good work, Sgt.
"Lead me not into Temptation.  I already know the way..."

WARTHOG!!

Sgt John Chapman

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2007, 07:19:19 PM »
Thanks Mac!!.........
:gafpac: 
Regards,
Sgt John Chapman
___________________________________
~*EXTREME WARTHOG*~
**GAF #143**
*SCORRS*
RATS #165
GMG2 USN '89-'93
___________________________________

Courage is being scared to Death,...But saddling up Anyway." -John Wayne
"BUTT THOSE SADDLES, It's Time To Ride"

Dutch Bill

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2007, 09:15:56 AM »
Saltpeter sources.

You might also check a garden center.
Most stump rotting products are potassium nitrate.

I had bought some years back that was a cheap fertilizer grade of saltpeter.  Then I found one brand that was a high-purity saltpeter.  It has some sulfur mixed in with it so after dissolving it in water I ran it through 4 layers of coffee filters to remove the sulfur.

In making combustible cartridges you must use a high-purity saltpeter.  The pre-2000 U.S. saltpeter producer shipped an impure product with about 0.5% sodium nitrate in it.  Made it very hygroscopic.

Lucky Ed Pepper

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2007, 09:33:59 AM »
What about dissolving blackpowder in hot water and straining mixture?

Ed Malinowski
Best Wishes
Ed Malinowski
"Shade Whisperer" First Class.
SASS 75748

Dutch Bill

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2007, 07:05:27 PM »
Ed,

Bad move there.

With the powder you have the water-soluble somewhat hygroscopic minerals from the charcoal in the powder.  Depending on where the powder maker gets their charcoal this mineral content can be rather high.
In the powder these charcoal minerals (ash) provide a certain function without making the powder grains overly hygroscopic.  But included in the saltpeter used to nitrate cartridge paper the hygroscopic thing can be a problem at high humidity.  Paper by itself is fairly hygroscopic.  Adding hygroscopic minerals to it makes it worse.  A good high-purity saltpeter is almost immune to humidity until the humidity hits around 92%.  Then the saltpeter picks up only small amounts of moisture from the air.

Prairie Wolf

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2007, 10:04:37 AM »
I had heard that old newsprint (from a newspaper) could be used, as it was about the same thickness as the buglers.

Can anyone verifiy this?

Thanks in advance


Prairie Wolf
Darkside Warthog Shootin' cattle rustlin' Beaver trappin' Buffler huntin' son of a beotch

Sgt John Chapman

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2007, 08:09:43 PM »
What about dissolving blackpowder in hot water and straining mixture?

Ed Malinowski


Ed,

Bad move there.

With the powder you have the water-soluble somewhat hygroscopic minerals from the charcoal in the powder.  Depending on where the powder maker gets their charcoal this mineral content can be rather high.
In the powder these charcoal minerals (ash) provide a certain function without making the powder grains overly hygroscopic.  But included in the saltpeter used to nitrate cartridge paper the hygroscopic thing can be a problem at high humidity.  Paper by itself is fairly hygroscopic.  Adding hygroscopic minerals to it makes it worse.  A good high-purity saltpeter is almost immune to humidity until the humidity hits around 92%.  Then the saltpeter picks up only small amounts of moisture from the air.



Not only is it tough to do and messy,....but the Saltpetre is cheaper than BP by far,......

http://www.skylighter.com/mall/chemicals.asp?Sort=P
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 08:12:46 PM by Sgt John Chapman »
Regards,
Sgt John Chapman
___________________________________
~*EXTREME WARTHOG*~
**GAF #143**
*SCORRS*
RATS #165
GMG2 USN '89-'93
___________________________________

Courage is being scared to Death,...But saddling up Anyway." -John Wayne
"BUTT THOSE SADDLES, It's Time To Ride"

Dakota Widowmaker

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2007, 08:04:14 PM »
Whats your lube recipe for your BP paper cartridges???

Are you using a 1:1 or 3:1 like the originals?

Sgt John Chapman

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2007, 08:43:26 PM »
I started off 1:1 but it was too soft and would bleed to the paper eventually, so now I use More bees wax than crisco,.....on the order as you say of 3:1......
Regards,
Sgt John Chapman
___________________________________
~*EXTREME WARTHOG*~
**GAF #143**
*SCORRS*
RATS #165
GMG2 USN '89-'93
___________________________________

Courage is being scared to Death,...But saddling up Anyway." -John Wayne
"BUTT THOSE SADDLES, It's Time To Ride"

Dakota Widowmaker

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2007, 09:17:23 PM »
Just some notes from the trenches...

1) Bugler paper is by far the best for this purpose. Its just a bit thicker than ZigZags, so, it is both easier to handle as well as slightly stiffer. The stiffness is helpful when placing a conical bullet into the paper cup with glue on its sides. ZigZags will crush too easily. Its also only $3/115 sheets... best economical paper as well.

2) When you make your own dowel, don't bother with too much taper. Less taper means less OAL to get the cartridge seated.

3) You MUST soak the paper in KNO3 and H2O for one whole hour to get all the glue off of it and for the paper to burn completely when ignited. One hour... no less....

4) I use a fork to gently "scoop" soaking papers out of the pan of solution and onto a sheet of aluminum foil and then into the oven. I just lightly come under the top of the paper with the top of fork. I can get 20-30 sheets of paper into a 9x13 pan.

5) your dowel should be as smooth as you can get it so that any excess glue on either the paper or your hands does not make the paper stick to the dowel. Thats when you get a MESS. I use a graphite pencil to prevent this from happening. Steel wool on the dowel will help as well.

6) Make all your paper cups first, cut them to length as needed, and then wait an hour or so for the glue to dry before attempting to load the cartridges.

NOTE: This is slow going, but, rather relaxing. I can whip up about 24 in an hour. (or so, with practice)

I'll see if I can't post a pic of my templates that I use. The cardboard box template is helpful for putting these all away nice and neat.  ::)

Sgt John Chapman

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2007, 05:36:44 PM »
AS far as paper goes,....I thought of trying Coffee filter material,.....It's lite, meant to be sturdy when wet so it's easier to handle, they are cheap, it seems to have the same burn rate as rolling papers and burns up good too,..................
This might be better suited twards Sharps Combustibles though, I have some loaded up for the pistol but I haven't had the chance to try them yet.....
Regards,
Sgt John Chapman
___________________________________
~*EXTREME WARTHOG*~
**GAF #143**
*SCORRS*
RATS #165
GMG2 USN '89-'93
___________________________________

Courage is being scared to Death,...But saddling up Anyway." -John Wayne
"BUTT THOSE SADDLES, It's Time To Ride"

mongoose

  • Free Grazer
Re: Making Useable Combustible Paper Cartridges
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2009, 07:29:58 AM »
I use an empty .38 Special case, fill 7/8 with 3f press on the .375 ball with heavy finger pressure. Make 50 at a time in 5 minutes! Remove the ball(teeth) pour in the powder place and seat the ball. Perfect and fast for my 1862 .36 Sheriff's model. Different cal  or cyl size use diff cases!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 07:35:01 AM by mongoose »