Author Topic: H&R Classic Rifle  (Read 5290 times)

Oklahoma

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H&R Classic Rifle
« on: January 09, 2010, 02:00:41 PM »
I was browzing around the internet and read an article in the Brimstone Gazette that is causing me a little concern. The author was writing about a range session with his H&R classic rifle. He stated that he had a couple fliers that was caused by the Transfer Bar not raising high enough on a couple of his shots. He indicated that this was a known problem with the classic rifles.
I am not doubting his word in the least, I just haven't heard this before and am wondering how prevalent this is and what the fix is.

Lazarus Longshot

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2010, 03:07:33 PM »
I've got several H&Rs, including a Buff Classic and a .38-55 Target. If you don't pull the trigger through, the transfer bar doesn't rise. But it doesn't cause a flyer; the gun doesn't fire!

The 'fix' is proper trigger technique and control. Not real sure how you can blame a flyer on that transfer bar. I've never seen an H&R where the transfer bar is connected to the sights.......

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Ranch 13

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2010, 06:50:38 AM »
I suppose it could be similar to the inconsistant firing pin strike, much as what happens with a broken firing pin or transfer bar in a Sharps.
 Either condition in a sharps will cause a sudden and drastic change in accuracy.
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Lazarus Longshot

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 12:50:03 PM »
Ok, I can see that a light hit might cause strange primer ignition, I guess, which could cause the powder to burn weird, if you failed to follow through on the trigger pull. Maybe. But as I mentioned earlier, the H&R transfer bar won't even come up if you don't follow through. If you stop the trigger pull as soon as the shot breaks, the bar won't even come up. You've got to follow through to bring it up at all. Maybe if you stop the follow through just after the shot breaks, when the transfer bar is partially up, it could cause such a strange situation.

But I don't see it as a problem with the rifle. I still see it as a problem with the shooter's trigger technique. I've never seen this happen, though, and I've had H&R rifles for eight years.

Possibly the pin holding the transfer bar is broken, and only allowing the bar to come up partially. But in that case, the 'fix' is to replace the pin. I guess if this were happening to me, and I were SURE that it wasn't my technique, I'd take the assembly apart and verify it was operating properly. But I wouldn't blame it on a "known problem" of the rifle.
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Ranch 13

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 01:37:10 PM »
 Well there's no maybe or possibly about it. When you get into trouble with a firing pin on a Sharps accuracy does go to squat, if there's a problem with the transfer bar on the H&R I can easily see that there'll be problems with accuracy, and follow thru be darned.
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Lazarus Longshot

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2010, 01:48:50 PM »
Chill, Ranch 13! I'm not arguing with ya about the possibility of inconsistent hits causing accuracy problems, just saying I've never seen it on the H&R rifles that I've had. Or heard if it in cruising the H&R forums for eight years. The only thing I've ever heard of regarding the transfer bar in the H&R is total failure to fire if you don't follow through properly. So in the H&R world, accuracy from that issue is not a "known problem."

He's asking about a "known problem". If there's a problem with the transfer bar on an H&R, it's called "broke gun". It the gun's working as it's designed (as in "not broken"), then it's trigger technique.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 01:56:40 PM by Lazarus Longshot »
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Ranch 13

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 02:08:26 PM »
 :surrender" I think if you calm down just a tad, you'll see we're saying the same thing...... :faint:
 I've got about about 20 years with Handi's haven't had it happen that problem in particular, but I can certainly see how it could happen. And speaking from experience both personal and observed when a trouble of some sort (broken gun) hits a sharps or rolling block firing pin accuracy does get very inconsistant.
 
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John Boy

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2010, 06:49:43 PM »
Gents, I never read or heard about the 'known issue' but that's immaterial after reading the Brimstone article because it is an operator issue by not pulling all the way on the trigger.  It's the way the rifles were designed with there transfer bar and I've never had problems due to it with my H&R. 
Plus,  if there are 'light finger' NEF/H&R trigger pullers, they can fix their issue:
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums//index.php/topic,52341.msg308025.html#msg308025
http://perkloafm.com/downloads2.html
Regards
John
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Uriah

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2010, 06:21:09 PM »
I've never examined an H&R, but from this, are you guys saying the transfer bar is raised by the pull on the trigger rather than the cocking of the hammer?

All I know is the Ruger Blackhawk. The hammer cock raises the transfer bar and the trigger pull simply keeps it in place as the hammer falls.

I'd have to think if the trigger pull raises the transfer bar, man that is a timing issue for a fine mechanism or that trigger pull is gonna be rather gritty with all it's doing. My Navy Arms 1866 has the lever safety, unlike most 1866s. Before the spring broke on that safety, man was that a tough, creepy trigger. With the spring broke the safety still works (long as the gun is upright) and the trigger, though not light, is much crisper.

John Boy

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2010, 08:26:20 PM »
Uriah, the Lifter and striker (transfer bar) assembly can be viewed how it looks here ... http://perkloafm.com/pdf/Handi_instr_twob.pdf
I've never had the 'light trigger pull' issue, so have never taken my rifle apart to see how the transfer bar interconnects with the hammer and trigger assembly
Regards
John
SASS ~ Darkside WartHog ~ SBSS (OGB, w/Star) ~ SCORRS
GAF Bvt 1st LT, Atlantic Division Scouts
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John Boy

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2010, 11:12:52 AM »
Uriah, you peeked my curiosity ... Looked at my rifle.  The top part of the 'transfer bar' with a relaxed hammer rests on the firing pin.  Cock the hammer and the bar remains on the firing pin.  Pull the trigger - hammer starts to drop vertically with the release of the sear and when the hammer strikes the firing pin, the transfer bar is completely below the firing pin

As for this light trigger pull issue, my trigger gauge read 3# 7.8oz for an average of 5 readings.  Not bad for a $400 rifle with 2 different caliber barrels that shoots excellent reloads.  BTW, my 2nd H&R that started it's life out as a 28ga shotgun, is now my 25-20 Schuetzen gallery match rifle.  Fifty yards offhand with a TJ Enterprise liner, here's what it can do ...
Regards
John
SASS ~ Darkside WartHog ~ SBSS (OGB, w/Star) ~ SCORRS
GAF Bvt 1st LT, Atlantic Division Scouts
Devote Convert to BPCR

Uriah

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2010, 07:24:09 PM »
John Boy,

I'm getting confused. What you describe as you cycle the action sounds like a hammer block rather than a transfer bar. If the trigger is held back while the hammer is dropped slowly, and the bar drops below and off of the firing pin, it seems o be acting like a block that is "uncovering" the firing pin.

I'm not positive, but I think that's how modern double action revolvers work. I think the S&Ws have hammer blocks and rebound mechanisms. These require that the trigger be held back during the hammer fall. Which is overall an easy thing to do, the trigger breaks with some weight and crispness. To try and unload the trigger, and be successful during the milliseconds that the hammer falls, would require many purposeful attempts by a very dexterous person.

John Boy

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2010, 07:41:20 PM »
Uriah, scroll back up the thread and then click on http://perkloafm.com/downloads2.html
When you get there, click on Part 1.  Then scroll to page 9 and look at 'K' ... the top part is what rests on the firing pin when the hammer is relaxed
And I believe K still reads ... Lifter and striker (transfer bar) assembly ;D
Irregardless of the pieces of the rifle ... IMHO, it isn't the rifles fault - it's the guy hanging onto the stock!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 07:43:45 PM by John Boy »
Regards
John
SASS ~ Darkside WartHog ~ SBSS (OGB, w/Star) ~ SCORRS
GAF Bvt 1st LT, Atlantic Division Scouts
Devote Convert to BPCR

Gary Norski

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Re: H&R Classic Rifle
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2010, 10:27:42 AM »
Sounds like all that is required is for the shooter to close his eyes before he jerks the trigger.  Gary