Author Topic: Old Enysford FFG in the .44-40  (Read 5922 times)

w44wcf

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Old Enysford FFG in the .44-40
« on: June 10, 2013, 05:22:31 AM »
I finally had a chance to try Old E 2F in the .44-40............thanks to John Boy. He saved me the Hazmat fee. :)   

Cases: R-P
Primer: CCI 300
bullet: 427098 (Accurate 43-210B Fairshake design) 210 grs.
lube: SPG

With the measure set to "40" volume here is the average velocity as compared to  Swiss
Old E 2F - 1,348 f.p.s.
Swiss 2f - 1,379 f.p.s.

By volume, we can see that Swiss is a wee bit more enegetic BUT by weight, Old E 2F produces a bit more velocity.
For all intensent purposes, the powders are pretty equal......at least in the .44-40. 
 
40 grs. by weight Old E 2F - 1,401 f.p.s.
40 grs. by weight Swiss 2F - 1,379 f.p.s.

I fired 25 rounds at 50 yards and am happy to report that there was no "foul out" and good accuracy maintained throughout.
There was light fouling in the barrel  :)     ....similar to my experience with Swiss in the .44-40.   

I am impressed.  I will load 50 rounds for further evaluation..............
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 05:31:49 AM by w44wcf »
aka w30wcf
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka John Kort
NRA Life member
.22 W.C.F., .30 W.C.F., .38 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F., .45 Colt  Cartridge Historian

Ranch 13

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Re: Old Enysford FFG in the .44-40
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 12:50:35 PM »
John it would be interesting to see a repeat of the Pardee test with the Olde Eynsford powder
Eat more BEEF the west wasn't won on a salad.
http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

John Boy

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Re: Old Enysford FFG in the .44-40
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 08:21:37 PM »
John, thanks for the comparison and charging by volume validates that Olde E' powder is 'juiced' up ...
*  We know from experience that Swiss is a dense powder and Olde E' is a light powder
*  Your velocity differential is not much more than Swiss with the volume charge
*  Comparative charges by scale weight have fps of Olde E' higher.
I have been dragging my lead shoes posting the comparatives between Olde E' - KIK (lot 0903) and Swiss shot from several calibers, all charged by equal scale weights .  Without specifically looking in the log book, there were fps differences close to 100 fps and more - Olde E' being the greater
What I do remember is - I noticed no appreciable difference for fouling between KIK and Olde E' shooting shot strings.  In the 38-55, Olde E' failed terribly with the number of water/dry patches needed to clean the bore
Regards
John
SASS ~ Darkside WartHog ~ SBSS (OGB, w/Star) ~ SCORRS
GAF Bvt 1st LT, Atlantic Division Scouts
Devote Convert to BPCR

w44wcf

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Re: Olde Enysford FFG in the .44-40
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 07:26:01 PM »
Don,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I might try that but if I do it would have to wait until later this year. Too many irons in the fire.

John,                                                                                                                                                                                                                               I loaded and fired 40 more rounds with the 427098 (Accurate 43-210B Fairshake design) yesterday.....30 with FFG and 10 with FFFG.  I am happy to report that the accuracy stayed constant throughout and the fouling was minimal.....similar to my experience with Swiss in the .44-40.  Took only about 3 patches to clean the barrel. :)
 
Perhaps the reason that you had problems in the .38-55 are due to the higher pressures generated and a bullet that has a higher sectional density as compared to the .44-40.
w44wcf
 
 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 07:29:04 PM by w44wcf »
aka w30wcf
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka John Kort
NRA Life member
.22 W.C.F., .30 W.C.F., .38 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F., .45 Colt  Cartridge Historian

John Boy

  • Free Grazer
Re: Old Enysford FFG in the .44-40
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2013, 08:19:14 PM »
John, I was using the same 38-55 load with Olde E' that I used last year at Ridgway with the 50 consecutive shot string using KIK 1.5 anf FFg ... Fed primer - dry felt wad and 42gr.  Last year the RH was 66% and this year using Olde E' the RH was 84%.  Without finding my pictures, it took 7 cotton balls with the Olde E'.  With the KIK was 4 cotton balls
Regards
John
SASS ~ Darkside WartHog ~ SBSS (OGB, w/Star) ~ SCORRS
GAF Bvt 1st LT, Atlantic Division Scouts
Devote Convert to BPCR

Ranch 13

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Re: Old Enysford FFG in the .44-40
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2013, 07:14:04 PM »
On Thursday  at the Quigley, I took my 45-70 loaded with 70 grs of Olde E and a 420 gr paper patch bullet, fired the entire course and a total of 50 rounds. The only cleaning patch and rod that rifle saw was when I got back to camp. Took 4 cleaning patches to clean the gun. Was shooting the ladder sights and averaged a 50 percent hit count, at ranges from 350-805.
 The 44-77 fired the match without cleaning using paper patch.
 This stuff is real and it's here to stay. There was a powder wagon on traders row and they were sold out before Thursday afternoon.
Eat more BEEF the west wasn't won on a salad.
http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

John Boy

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Re: Old Enysford FFG in the .44-40
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2013, 08:10:21 PM »
Don, which grade of Olde E' were you using?
Regards
John
SASS ~ Darkside WartHog ~ SBSS (OGB, w/Star) ~ SCORRS
GAF Bvt 1st LT, Atlantic Division Scouts
Devote Convert to BPCR

Ranch 13

  • Free Grazer
Re: Old Enysford FFG in the .44-40
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2013, 06:39:51 AM »
Was shooting 70 grs of the 2f in the 45-70 and 74 grs 2f with the 1.1 inch bullet and 76 grs 1.5 with the 1.35 inch bullet in the 44-77.
All the patches were treated with jojoba oil per the instructions of the 1875 Remington catalog.

At the Quigley, Bear River Powder was there with a powder wagon, delivering pre ordered quanities of powder. He also had along a couple of cases of the Olde Eynsford to sell, he allowed 1 can per customer, and was sold out in a day. Folks were buying their can, going to camp loading test rounds and down to the firing line to try them out. By Saturday afternoon, almost 36 hrs after the available powder was gone and Craig had left for deliveries to a Cannon shoot, there were people looking all over for a can of the stuff.
 I think if Hogdons doesn't muck with the recipe and keeps the stuff coming it's going to take a huge market share of the bp community.
Eat more BEEF the west wasn't won on a salad.
http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

John Boy

  • Free Grazer
Re: Old Enysford FFG in the .44-40
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2013, 06:14:08 PM »
Don, your right about the mucking.  One one more item - Hodgdon doesn't get greedy and keep jacking the price.
There's more market I've not hear a peep from - Cowboy Action!


Regards
John
SASS ~ Darkside WartHog ~ SBSS (OGB, w/Star) ~ SCORRS
GAF Bvt 1st LT, Atlantic Division Scouts
Devote Convert to BPCR

Ranch 13

  • Free Grazer
Re: Old Enysford FFG in the .44-40
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2013, 08:14:27 PM »
The muzzlestuffer guys are just now starting to take a look at the stuff. Some that are actually shooting it like it, others not so much.
I don't believe they'll get greedy, this stuff has the potential to take a huge market share and bring good profits without any price gouging. Plus they have to be competitive price wise with KIK and Schuetzen and they know it.
Eat more BEEF the west wasn't won on a salad.
http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

John Boy

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Re: Old Enysford FFG in the .44-40
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2013, 06:57:27 AM »
Quote
Plus they have to be competitive price wise with KIK and Schuetzen and they know it.

Don, don't bet the ranch ... remember Express?  And when Hodgdon bought Goex with a 20% price increase in one year!  Plus they have a habit to raise prices 10% each year
Regards
John
SASS ~ Darkside WartHog ~ SBSS (OGB, w/Star) ~ SCORRS
GAF Bvt 1st LT, Atlantic Division Scouts
Devote Convert to BPCR

Ranch 13

  • Free Grazer
Re: Old Enysford FFG in the .44-40
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2013, 08:07:32 AM »
 Chris Hogdon says he thinks the biggest mistake that they made with Express was pricing it to high to start with. They maybe right. This Enysford is right at the price point where you can almost get 2 cases for the price of one Swiss, and even the die hard swiss fanatics are having a hard time arqueing Swiss is a better powder.
 I don't know about all the crabbing about hogdons raising prices, everything has went up, and the price of blackpowder is still really reasonable.
Eat more BEEF the west wasn't won on a salad.
http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php